Flipside Interviews Operation Ivy Interview by Joy Operation Ivy are the new sensation coming out of the Gilman sphere of influence and mix hard-edged ska with the intensity of young thrash. Not only do they make me eat the words "I'm too jaded to be excited anymore" but they're a swell bunch of guys to boot. I happened to run into them somewhere in Pasadena and they were quite agreeable for an afternoon chat... JOY: So how do you like So Cal so far? JESSE: It's funny, I just wrote a song about Souther California and the lyrics went ... let's see ... 'This town is so insane, it's like a giant mechanical brain'.There you have it. Actually, the first time I came here, well, to me it kind of summarized the worst aspects of California. Sort of gross, left-wing consumerism... JOY: Left-wing? JESSE: More ... I should say, enlightened consumerism. Your basic materialism under the guise of new-age hipness. But now that really I've seen the city, I'm starting to like it just because there's more stuff hidden under all that LA garbage. Like Al's Bar ... there's some pretty hot stuff happening. JOY: Lint's been telling me about this big difference between the city (SF) and Berkeley. Is that likened to Orange County and LA here? MATT: I'm not really versed on the geography of Orange County ... JESSE: That's sort of different, that's sort of Big City and suburbs. The difference between them is that SF is predominantly over-21 and Berkeley is more for the younger bands and stuff and I think there's a larger quantity of bands. JOY: Your response last week in SF seemed pretty good. (At an over 21s bar) JESSE: Yeah, San Francisco's opening up a little. It isn't like a competition but I feel and a lot of other people feel that San Francisco's been a little bit dead lately. There's been some stuff happening, but lately it's been over-21, sort of bar-scene, as opposed to 'young energy' or however you want to put it. JOY: And how do you identify with it? JESSE: In Berkeley, it's not so much the young energy, I'm not referring to specific age groups, I just mean new bands happening. LINT: Like Larry Livermore is forty years old and I consider him having that young sort of energy, y'know what I'm saying? JESSE: There's a lot of new clubs. There's just places to play, people doing things, people really into underground music. In SF it's like the bars are already there so let's go hang out at them. I don't want to be misconstrued as saying 'Everything in SF is dead'. There is stuff happening, you just have to look for it a little bit harder. JOY: It seems as though you've been misconstrued a lot lately. Why do people think in those ways? JESSE: I think it happends to all of us. It happens to me because I'm sarcastic and I'll say something like, 'Gee, I wish there were more huge skinheads beating up people at our show' during an interview sarcastically and people will take that extremely seriously. I guess one's tone of voice doesn't carry through in print. JOY: What about that incident at the AIDS benefit? (laughter) JESSE: I don't know what you're talking about! MATT: Nothing happened ... JESSE: You want to hear about that? JOY: Sure ... JESSE: Alright, well, since you want to reveal my dirty laundry ... MATT: I'll tell it. Basically what happened was, we were playing an AIDS benefit in Berkeley. There were a lot of people there and there were some speakers there and it was this really intense thing and we got up on stage and there was a microphone stand on Jesse's mike, and Jesse never uses microphone stands. So he grabbed the stand and said, 'I don't use microphone stands, microphone stands are for fags' ... JESSE: Yeah, but the tone of the voice was - obviously this won't carry through in print - very sarcastic. In other words, I was sort of mocking that attitude but I guess to a lot of homosexuals, using the word 'faggot' humorously is like using the word 'nigger' humorously. So I've learned since then ... I wouldn't use that word privately, just because it's such a slur. But I was young ... and naive. JOY: How long ago was that? JESSE: About four months ago. (laughter) I guess I try to stuff my leg as far down my throat as I can about once or twice a month. (laughter) JOY: So why did you put 'Crimpshrine eat shit' and 'Isocracy eat shit' on your record? (On the engraved label) MATT: Where did you get that idea?! JESSE: Boy, this is a dirt session! LINT: Well, they're our friends but as a joke on the record, on the ingrave, we thought we'd just write it. A lot of people took that very seriously! (Laughter) Including Isocracy and Crimpshrine! MATT: Unfortunately, we seem to be having problems all the time getting things taken a little too seriously, the way things come out on print. We gotta learn to never have anything in print! LINT: Crimpshrine are really good friends with us, we practice with them, we all grew up together ... JESSE: Yeah, they're probably one of my favorite bands. Isocracy were really great, too. JOY: Then do you think a lot of people in the quote 'scene' lack a sense of humor? JESSE: I think a lot of people look for reasons to see the worst in any situation just because it's exciting. It's far more exciting to think that there's some sort of blood vendetta between us and Crimpshrine than to see the actual picture. (Talk goes into how much duct tape is used by Crimpshrine) JOY: I've seen you about three times this month and every time I've seen you it's like you destroy your equipment. So, what's the turnover rate? MATT: Actually, we have no turnover rate, we've been using the same stuff since we started out. I mean, I personally don't even own a bass amp anymore, I borrow it. JESSE: Crimpshrine may be held together by duct tape but we've held together through sheer luck. JOY: You guys really thrash live. LINT: Jesse's got it made, he doesn't have any equipment, no guitars or chords breaking down ... My equipment fucks up every show, but it's something I have to deal with, I kinda expect it. Partly because we jump around so fuckin' much. MATT: And the crowd, too ... LINT: Yeah, the crowd. JESSE: I think it's a secret hatred for technology, subliminally ... LINT: This is humor! JESSE: THIS IS HUMOR! THIS IS SARCASM! WE LIKE TO DESTROY ALL MUSICAL EQUIPMENT! (laughter) No, really, I don't think we've had a show in three months with all the mikes holding out during the entire show or Dave's drums holding out because we're very ... energetic. And it's hard to be filled with that much energy and to watch your step. LINT: I just like it so much, when I start playing, we all do it, we just go crazy. I guess sometimes it gets out of hand ... JOY: Do you ever think you'll get to the point where you'll be concerned about 'your sound' enough to take it a little easier? LINT: I see some bands really get into their sound who used to be really raw and intense and I'd rather see that than having it better sounding. JESSE: We don't care about that shit. (pause) SARCASM! (laughter) We basically started out with no PA system so we couldn't hear outselves whatsoever and because we're rooted in the shitties sound systems available, like really small parties with tons of people, we're not apt to be really picky about it. We definitely prefer having the freedom to move around, and also, I think, the energy, if you're into what you're doing, I think that helps the music more than the most expensive PA in the world. JOY: So how was your tour? LINT: It was really good. The way we went about it was we would play anywhere, anytime, any kind of show we could get, we saved all our money and ate really cheaply, cheese sandwiches every night. I thought it went very well. JOY: So what's the secret of a successful tour? LINT: I think it was positive thinking. We went out in a car with a box on the roof saying 'We're going to do this!' and a lot of people in Berkeley were saying, 'I don't know ... You should take a van ...' or 'Six weeks is a long time' or 'You guys aren't a big enough band ...' or that kind of thing. But we just said, 'We're going to do it!' and we knew when we first headed out to LA, we knew that we were going to make it. And we did! I think it's all in the mental attitude. MATT: Yeah, that's basically it. We saved a lot of money, every night. We only stayed at one motel the whole time we toured and that's only because we were driving six hundred miles and we had to stop. We built up relationships with people and stayed at their houses ... that really helped a lot. JESSE: There are times when we get pessimistic. Speaking on a personal level, when I get pessimistic, and you never realise how one tiny bit of pessimism can affect your whole outlook on life. Like we'd have two bad shows in a row and I'd just start thinking that the whole thing was hopeless but then, it's generally more of a problem with the mind than anything else. If you are persistent, and you are friends with your band then you can work through difficulties and there's no problem. JOY: Several years ago, the mod/ska scene was really popular, did you relate with that? JESSE: The type of people I can identify with are the type of people, regardless of what they may call themselves, that can go to a show in a different social group, or whatever, and feel comfortable. And feel like they can share in the energy of the music or just hang out with one another. If a group of people is elitist or uptight about hanging out with anyone else then I definitely cannot identify with them. So it's not so much what the group is but the person themself. LINT: I totally agree with that. It really makes me happy to see all sorts of people hanging out at one show and having no fights, ya know? There was this rumor at one of our shows of a big skinhead guy grabbing a mod and swinging him around the pit by his necktie and that was just a rumor. That didn't happen at our show. It's really good to have all different kinds of people at our shows. We've never had a fight at our shows in Berkeley. Once in Davis, a fight broke out at one of our shows. We just stopped playing, stopped the music right there and stopping the music really sobers up people. I think it's really important to stop the music if a fight starts. MATT: When we play, we try to be directly related to the audience enough so that the attention is on the music, atmosphere or the whole energy of the situation more than aggression or one's own personal insecurities that would make one want to start fights. We really haven't had that problem too much. JESSE: And though we might write serious lyrics, our stage presence is basically happy because we're happy to be playing. I think we can put that across. I think even if you have serious lyrics, there's a full scale of human emotions you can look at in music and it would be unrepresentative of us as a people to be always angry. Or always happy. To me that would be just an act. But we are happy when we're playing and I communicate my lyrics seriously. LINT: I write music that makes me happy. I did write a few depressing songs but I don't play those anymore. I go to my guitar to make me ahppy. MATT: At shows, the message, at least for me, is, 'Have a good time' because if you can get a bunch of people together having a good time and being happy that, in one sense, is a political act in itself, or an act that is important socially ... even if they ARE completely different. Printed in Flipside 1988